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LUCKYDOG
Honest differences are often a healthy sign of progress - Ghandi
Articles Posted: 11; Links Seeded: 2651
Member Since: 2/2006Last Seen: 11/22/2009
Member Since: 2/2006Last Seen: 11/22/2009
11 Votes
29 Comments
Oregon Looks at Taxing Mileage Instead of Gasoline
News Type: Event — Seeded on Fri Jan 2, 2009 8:24 PM EST
Article Source: The New York Timesadvertisement
PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) -- Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring devices in 300 vehicles. The idea first emerged nearly 10 years ago as Oregon lawmakers worried that fuel-efficient cars such as gas-electric hybrids could pose a threat to road upkeep, which is paid for largely with gasoline taxes.
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- Regions: Portland-OR, New York
 | Oregon looks at taxing mileage instead of gasoline | Associated Press | Fri Jan 2 | 11 |
- Public Discussion (29)
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21
5.5
{"commentId":4640620,"authorDomain":"luckydog"}
First let me say I live in Oregon and we have pretty good roads. I have worked as an interstate truck driver and I have seen many bad roads so I know the difference. I like good roads and I have no problem paying a few cents more to maintain them every time I fill up but the problem is, no one asks me to.
This is an extraordinarily bad idea and the perfect example of a solution in search of a problem. Instead of installing this cumbersome system on every vehicle in the state (I guess out of state vehicles would get a free ride) simply raise the state gas tax, something which has not been done for many years. Better yet, make it a percentage of the cost of a gallon of gas. That is what is done with most sales taxes and after all this is what this is and it will self adjust.
- Taxing the amount of gas used puts a burden on larger vehicles that are less efficient which is most appropriate. Why would you tax a smaller more fuel efficient car at the same rate considering we are supposed to be promoting conservation.
- What happens when the unit malfunctions which they will. You will either not be able to purchase gas or get overcharged some ridiculous amount. Keep things simple. Why add a layer of complexity when it is not needed?
- Should be a great deal though for the businesses that will be installing these millions of gps units and repairing them, but I wonder who is going to pay for that redundant technology? The motorist would be my guess.
{"commentId":4640620,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"luckydog"}
- 5 votes
#1 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 8:44 PM EST{"commentId":4641638,"authorDomain":"Infohack"}
Not to mention the privacy concerns of having a GPS device tracking one's driving habits and travel. The article does mention this, but frankly, I'm not reassured. Data can always be stored and potentially abused:
Another concern is that such devices could threaten privacy. Whitty said he and his task force have assured people that the program does not track detailed movement and that driving history is not stored and cannot be accessed by law enforcement agencies.
{"commentId":4641638,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"Infohack"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":4643604,"authorDomain":"snowfallen"}
And how exactly would the state handle the huge number of people that are Washingtonians (living in Vancouver or Clark County) and commute over the bridge everyday into Portland?
That said, I voluntarily cut my mileage for the year down to 3,000-miles by using my bicycle for all of my errands. Sounds crazy and would never work for everyone, but I have never been happier.
{"commentId":4643604,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"snowfallen"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4640725,"authorDomain":"backroadsbubba"}
I saw this one coming miles away. I thought we learned the gas tax lesson during Carter's tenure. We're punished for doing the right thing.
{"commentId":4640725,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"backroadsbubba"}
- 5 votes
#2 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 8:54 PM EST{"commentId":4640823,"authorDomain":"ElliePhat"}
Yep. So much for "encouraging" all of us to purchase fuel-efficient vehicles. NC is considering a version of this, too...a little less creepy b/c they're not proposing using GPS to verify. The down side? They'll just tax the miles on your car no matter where you drove them -- in-state, out-of-state -- they don't care. Just pay up.
{"commentId":4640823,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"ElliePhat"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":4640853,"authorDomain":"luckydog"}
Agreed backroads. I think this is a backdoor way of making all roads toll roads. Then if your friendly or not so friendly bureaucrat thinks there is too much traffic on one road he can just flip a switch and tax you more to encourage you not to go that way. And after all it is your own "choice".
They can say this will not be used for surveilance but we both know that it is just too tempting to resist.
{"commentId":4640853,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"luckydog"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4641023,"authorDomain":"backroadsbubba"}
I e-mailed this to a friend who moved back to Oregon four years ago. She drives a Prius. Lucky, definitely, it sounds like Big Bro' stuff to me.
Ellie, we may see more people holding onto their older cars.
{"commentId":4641023,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"backroadsbubba"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":4641371,"authorDomain":"yorandyo2"}
A lot of people in Oregon will think this is a stroke of genius and grasp it like a straw in a flash flood.
Oregon is looking down the road at a transportation infrastructure melt down and no money to fix it. Short of an Obama stimulus package that will pump billions into public works projects there aren't many solutions. Oregon's initiative process allows short sighted people like Bill Sizemore to stir people up against taxes even removing existing taxes from the revenue stream.
This is an incredibly bad idea but it's a unique idea and Oregonians love unique.
{"commentId":4641371,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"yorandyo2"}
- 4 votes
#3 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 9:57 PM EST{"commentId":4643031,"authorDomain":"luckydog"}
Yeah but Oregonians don't like to get suckered. We need infrastructure just like every other state but there are a number of ways to provide that including raising the gas tax. Republicans though just freak out at any mention of a tax increase.
{"commentId":4643031,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"luckydog"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4653494,"authorDomain":"yorandyo2"}
Oregon and every other state need to lower expectations for transportation infrastructure. A street can be a street without all the nice extras. It doesn't have to be so wide, Carry traffic so fast and provide special lanes for bicycles that pay nothing.
That's it! Charge bicyclists by the mile...and if they won't pay charge them every time they whine or show their middle finger...problem solved!
{"commentId":4653494,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"yorandyo2"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4655239,"authorDomain":"luckydog"}
Actually Clint I would like to see States raise expectations. I know here in Oregon New roads have lagged far behind the increase in traffic. I would also like to see a high speed train corridor between Seattle and LA. Bullet trains are long overdue in this country and would reduce pressure on the airline system and provide some needed competition.
{"commentId":4655239,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"luckydog"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4658236,"authorDomain":"yorandyo2"}
I agree on high capacity transit. The expectations need to be higher in those areas to reduce the pressure on roads. Across the country money is being spent on roads for more capacity while existing roads can't get the money needed for proper maintenance. We are building ourselves into a giant maintenance sinkhole.
{"commentId":4658236,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"yorandyo2"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4660064,"authorDomain":"ElliePhat"}
luckydog,
I just noticed your title says "instead of". NC's proposition is in addition to gas taxes.
{"commentId":4660064,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"ElliePhat"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4660405,"authorDomain":"luckydog"}
Ellie - That's even worse than Oregon's proposal. I just seeded an article where the Federal government also wants to tax mileage and tax "high congestion" use more. An incentive to build fewer roads to increase tax revenue if I ever heard one.
{"commentId":4660405,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"luckydog"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4669689,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
First they say get better gas mileage. You do. Then they say you have stopped using enough gasoline to give us tax money. We are going to punish you for listening to us the first time.
They really believe that they have a right to all of our money. They wanted to take it away from us then give it back to us according to what they thing we should have.
{"commentId":4669689,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":4671360,"authorDomain":"luckydog"}
Nobody ever said politicians were consistent. It is our duty as citizens to remind them from time to time, especially at the ballot box, that we have a say too. Obviously we need more and better roads and other infrastructure. They need to show us why any "new and improved" tax system is going to benefit us, rather than them.
{"commentId":4671360,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"luckydog"}
{"commentId":4641577,"authorDomain":"niafabo"}
Definitely sounds way to big brotherly to me. Why would anyone want the government knowing exactly where they are at all times and how far they've traveled. Creepy.
{"commentId":4641577,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"niafabo"}
- 5 votes
#4 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 10:15 PM EST{"commentId":4641655,"authorDomain":"ElliePhat"}
Especially so they can send you a bill at the end of the year!
{"commentId":4641655,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"ElliePhat"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":4641658,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
Lawmakers everywhere believe that our money is rightfully theirs. Some company with active lobbyists have caught the imagination of the legislature. If this passes it will encourage people to register their cars in neighboring states. How much will such a device cost? This is a "Big Brother" device. If it is a GPS device not only will it monitor the miles you drive, it will be able to tell them exactly where you are at every moment.
{"commentId":4641658,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
- 6 votes
#5 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 10:23 PM EST{"commentId":4641701,"authorDomain":"ElliePhat"}
Lawmakers everywhere believe that our money is rightfully theirs.
So true. It chaps me the way they refer to tax cuts as "spending programs," as if the money was theirs to begin with. Now, I suppose they believe our location and driving habits are rightfully theirs to tinker with, too.
{"commentId":4641701,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"ElliePhat"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":4641904,"authorDomain":"bbarnard"}
Soooo communist! I gues there are people so retarded and brain dead, the government should hold them by the hand to prevent them from getting burnt by a cup of Mac Donnalds coffee, so small in their believe that a portrait of some Christian event will topple their believe, or a Ho-Ho-Ho from a Santa is enough to steer them on a different track. Think of all the ID systems we have, all the checks where you are treated like a criminal, such as airports, etc. Government spending should be limited in terms of increase to the national average in salary increases. If my salary is increased by 3%, government already benifit from the increase in the tax portion but their spending should not be allowed to exceed ow much people receive in salary increases.
{"commentId":4641904,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"bbarnard"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4641834,"authorDomain":"bbarnard"}
We encourage car makers to produce cars that does better on gas. Now the states are screwed because gas sales are not what they used to be. Lets find another way to 5crew the public. Lets tax milage instead of gas. Now the state will get more per gallon too. So will they also collect taxes on miles traveled out of state, vacation, work etc? That is double taxation if you pay taxes on the gas purchased out of state plus taxes back home on the miles you already paid gas taxes for. Don't get suckered by this proposal.
{"commentId":4641834,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"bbarnard"}
- 3 votes
#6 - Fri Jan 2, 2009 10:43 PM EST{"commentId":4642881,"authorDomain":"adventurouscp"}
Don't you dare invade our privacy and track the milage or tax it. Stop being pricks and start prioritizing and getting creative, not invad privacy and take the easy way out, raising taxes. This is why we pay you to serve us not to screw us.
{"commentId":4642881,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"adventurouscp"}
- 1 vote
#7 - Sat Jan 3, 2009 12:47 AM EST{"commentId":4643157,"authorDomain":"prm-1"}
As an Oregonian ... I would be willing to pay an additional tax on fuel.. I know that the repairs have to be paid for.. No monitor in my vehicle... Truckers already pay heavy vehicle tariffs....
{"commentId":4643157,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"prm-1"}
- 2 votes
#8 - Sat Jan 3, 2009 1:24 AM EST{"commentId":4647338,"authorDomain":"Arcturas"}
The idea of the state government knowing everywhere that I go in the state of Oregon makes me uneasy.
{"commentId":4647338,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"Arcturas"}
- 1 vote
#9 - Sat Jan 3, 2009 1:18 PM EST{"commentId":4648166,"authorDomain":"luckydog"}
Technology should be used to save us money, make us safer or life more convenient. This technology doesn't do any of those things.
{"commentId":4648166,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"luckydog"}
- 2 votes
#10 - Sat Jan 3, 2009 2:32 PM EST{"commentId":4650617,"authorDomain":"jaciancio"}
You can bet the fuel tax you pay at the pump won't go away. We here in Illinois still pay a state tax included in our local phone bills to pay for the construction and maintenence of telegraph lines. When is the last time you sent a telegraph?
{"commentId":4650617,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"jaciancio"}
- 1 vote
#11 - Sat Jan 3, 2009 6:14 PM EST{"commentId":4652830,"authorDomain":"luckydog"}
John, if you don't use the telegraph how will you know the stagecoach is on time?
{"commentId":4652830,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"luckydog"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4652874,"authorDomain":"ElliePhat"}
LOL! Perhaps the Dept of Transportation, or the Federal Transit Administration, or maybe the Federal Highway Administration can help?
{"commentId":4652874,"threadId":"459102","contentId":"2268463","authorDomain":"ElliePhat"}
- 3 votes
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